Montana TikTok Ban & 1st Amendment Rights: Unraveling the Controversies of Social Media

May 19, 2023 Andrew Lieb / Lauren Lieb / Mordy Yankovich / Cheryl Berger Season 2 Episode 84
Montana TikTok Ban & 1st Amendment Rights: Unraveling the Controversies of Social Media
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Montana TikTok Ban & 1st Amendment Rights: Unraveling the Controversies of Social Media
May 19, 2023 Season 2 Episode 84
Andrew Lieb / Lauren Lieb / Mordy Yankovich / Cheryl Berger

In this week's episode of The Lieb Cast Podcast, we dive headfirst into the swirling sea of legal controversies surrounding social media. We kick things off with the recent TikTok ban in Montana, a move stirring up waves in the realm of First Amendment and Equal Protection rights. Join us as we dissect the ban's justifications, which alleges potential Chinese government surveillance through the popular app.

Does the ban safeguard security, or does it sweepingly stifle free speech? We delve into the claim, drawing insights from legal precedent and fundamental principles of liberty.

Switching gears, we also discuss the Supreme Court's decision, from this week, about Section 230 liability protection for Twitter and Google. We question whether these social media juggernauts should bear responsibility for the harmful content posted by users on their platforms while analyzing arguments from both sides.

In a world where digital conversations dictate societal trends, these legal battles have far-reaching implications. Join us as we unravel the threads of these pressing issues, balancing legal interpretations with a humane perspective. The Cast touches on the importance of primary source material and the prevalence of conspiracy theories in society. We conclude by highlighting the need to critically examine information and not attribute every mistake or mishap to a grand conspiracy.

Tune in to stay informed, educated, and engaged!

Show Notes Transcript

In this week's episode of The Lieb Cast Podcast, we dive headfirst into the swirling sea of legal controversies surrounding social media. We kick things off with the recent TikTok ban in Montana, a move stirring up waves in the realm of First Amendment and Equal Protection rights. Join us as we dissect the ban's justifications, which alleges potential Chinese government surveillance through the popular app.

Does the ban safeguard security, or does it sweepingly stifle free speech? We delve into the claim, drawing insights from legal precedent and fundamental principles of liberty.

Switching gears, we also discuss the Supreme Court's decision, from this week, about Section 230 liability protection for Twitter and Google. We question whether these social media juggernauts should bear responsibility for the harmful content posted by users on their platforms while analyzing arguments from both sides.

In a world where digital conversations dictate societal trends, these legal battles have far-reaching implications. Join us as we unravel the threads of these pressing issues, balancing legal interpretations with a humane perspective. The Cast touches on the importance of primary source material and the prevalence of conspiracy theories in society. We conclude by highlighting the need to critically examine information and not attribute every mistake or mishap to a grand conspiracy.

Tune in to stay informed, educated, and engaged!

Unknown Speaker  0:35  
Today on the lieb cast, we're talking about blitzes, grilled cheese, tic tock ban, Twitter and Google and our Supreme Court. The question is, why are we randomly randomly randomly getting rid of the Boogeyman? Instead of regulating all the intentional bad actors? What do you think? Before we get going Morty was interviewing Cheryl about her eating habits, so I'll let him keep going. So you guys can hear like I just I thought that it was better than I was cracking up. So I felt like Morty Well, we're just asking her about our grilled her. She has grilled cheese, but what Yeah, so she was talking about grilled cheese, but I know that Cheryl doesn't eat cheese and doesn't eat bread. And she's in like, tip top shape. So I was just curious. I was curious. She's a vegan who doesn't eat bread? And I was I was curious. Like, does she look forward to meals because she doesn't eat meat. She doesn't eat cheese as the bread she just eats vegetables so I get there are some vegetables that are tasty, but like Cheryl, there's no way you actually look forward to eating like eating is just something you need to get through. Right? I love my vegetables. I always had a salad any day of the week over that crappy fake sandwich I had today. That's my

Unknown Speaker  1:48  
morning that recipe I signed up last night I find that hard to believe Morty that recipe I sent you last night for cheese blintzes Do you think we should we should share with her she couldn't have it it was electable. We had those in camp but did not like it because I don't like ricotta cheese. So that would be a big just you know, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you obviously didn't read the recipe because the recipe explained that's a Ukrainian Blitz. And they were explaining the different choices of blends and that they originated all Jews might think that they're from Eastern Europe, but they're actually from a population in India of Jews. And they were teaching us about Indian spices and the blends. Cheryl doesn't even understand what a good blend is Morty. I'm not sharing this with her. It's pathetic. When the last time you had a dairy product

Unknown Speaker  2:33  
in 2010

Unknown Speaker  2:37  
He remembers the day she has like a calendar.

Unknown Speaker  2:41  
When's the last time you when's the last time you add ice cream? I have had fake ice cream. Nice query, like real, real rich like Haagen Dazs ice cream, either 2010 or prior. Do you know that Haagen Dazs that fancy name, they're actually they're actually from the city. They're from New York City. And they realized that if you made a name that sounded foreign, you can sell it for a lot of money. It's it's like Ben and Jerry's telling everyone they're from Vermont, but they actually went to Lauren's High School on Long Island. So you think about Vermont cows, but they don't have Vermont cows. Their South Shore Long Island and Jerry are from America. Come on. Everybody knows that they're not from Vermont. It's full of baloney. Just Cognos does make the best ice cream according to my cause. Yeah, oh my god, it's by far the best. I won't eat. Belgian chocolate chocolate. Oh my god, it's amazing. If we were in Montana, right now, we couldn't be having this conversation on Tik Tok anymore, because they've eliminated our freedom of speech in Montana. And there's a lawsuit right now in Montana, because Montana is the first state in the country to not allow Tiktok anymore. And my freedom of speech is going well. I go snowboarding, I want to go to Big Sky, Montana, one of the best snowboarding destinations in the world. So you can just not open the Tiktok app in Montana is gonna get arrested for use Tiktok the way the law is written, it's about downloading the app. It's not about it's about trying to get the app providers, you have to go to the state borders and go to, you know, walk over the state line, download the app and

Unknown Speaker  4:09  
tick tock. It's probably the same way that those gambling online gambling apps work like if you're in New Jersey, it works if you're outside of New Jersey, it does not I didn't know that. Yeah. There's certain ones. Yes. They're like an IP address. Yeah, I guess so. So the way the laws written here, it's about the downloading the actual app, not the utilization. They're going after the app services like the Apple I store, the App Store, and they're going after tic tock. And I thought and I really believe this that this is a constitutional discrimination equal protection issue because they're pigeon holing one app company, one of the social media companies, and not all the social media companies. And the question is, why are they targeting them?

Unknown Speaker  5:00  
They're targeting them because they're saying they're Chinese, which the way I remember law school was that is definitely a discriminatory event. Let's assume for argument's sake, they're Chinese because after all, tick tock is actually based in the US even though the parent company is a Chinese company. And tick tock itself is a US company. And the CEO is not from China. The CEO actually went to school in the US, the CEO has no China allegiance. But what's interesting morning is that I imagined a group of guys and gals talking about blintzes and grilled cheese, and Ben and Jerry's ice cream. And they wanted to put up this great tick tock video because everyone knows that if we put up the live cast on tick tock right now, we would obviously get the most hits of all time when we unravel. Lauren. Well, Lauren just sold out that and Jerry, she said, whether you happen to have a lot of a lot of fans in Montana, I put you know, what's happening now is that our First Amendment rights, that's what's happening all the TIC tock users are suing right now. They're suing and here's from their complaint. I'm going to read you from their complaint. Cheryl, you'll tell me if you think they're onto something, because maybe we should be getting all the money and the claim from tick tock now that Lauren sold out Ben and Jerry, here's what

Unknown Speaker  6:15  
it bends. Okay, it's Jerry, I got a problem with but anyway, the last one.

Unknown Speaker  6:21  
Morning Morning, I and I are going to talk about that because it gets us very enraged. But law takes the broadest possible approach to its objectives, restricting and banning the protected speech of all Tik Tok users like leap cast, if they should, right likely guest in Montana to prevent the speculative and unsubstantiated possibility that the Chinese government might direct talk Inc, or its parent to spy on some Montana users. That's what the complaint is. So Cheryl, do you think and I want to know, is this a better equal protections case from tick tock, or a better First Amendment case from the users saying that the government by restricting tick tock the 14th into the first is thereby quelling quashing, eliminating, restricting the speech of tick tock users because the government's action over the private company is therefore silencing speech? And the most amazing part it's as a conservative thing, it's a conservative thing going on here and this is my problem with conservatives today. It service tell you their conservative conservative First Amendment, we like our rights, we like our rights, except if we're afraid of the Chinese, then we no longer have first amendment rights. Like, I always thought these amendments were the biggest thing. So Cheryl, tell me you're our brilliant mind on this. No, I want to know because I want to fight back. So when I go back to MC Big Sky, Montana, I'm on the power, I'm going carving.

Unknown Speaker  7:49  
I'm carving down the mountain, Big Sky, Montana. Lauren obviously knows that this year from my birthday, she's going to get me the cam, so she can follow me on the way down, put it on Tiktok to him saying, Yeah, this vision, shall we we're gonna call it we're gonna call it tick tock and blintzes. And we're gonna do a whole thing on it. And now I feel like should I join the lawsuit? Tell me Do I have a case? Absolutely. You have government restricting speech? I think the only way that the government really can can pass the legislation if they if they establish they have a real compelling need. And based upon the allegations, I don't think they can even come close to meeting that burden. Well, let's assume there was a government need, wouldn't it be the federal government as to China, not the Montana government, like what I'm trying to get at? Is it assuming China could spy and assuming China could spy on the citizens? Isn't the fact the federal government hasn't restricted it? And it's available in all those other states? Doesn't that in of itself, absolutely. Show us not a compelling need? It might be a need. It's just not compelling. Morty. What do you think? I mean, is there any evidence that that China's using tick tock to spy on people? Well, if you watch the hearings with the Congress, I was watching the congressional Did you watch the congressional hearings? Clearly, I did not. Oh, Lord, do you watch them? No, I was great. They actually wanted to know if, because of and I'm paraphrasing, but things like when you turn on the server, is it connected to the internet? Like that was the types of questions that were asked? Yeah, cuz they're all They're all like 99 years old. So I don't know if we got any real answers, because I think the conversation was like, my grandparents had been dead for a long time. But I remember when, like AOL came out and my grandmother was like, How is it connecting to the world? Like, I still don't know. I don't get that though. Like

Unknown Speaker  9:44  
my mother, my mother, my mother called me. You need to come home so you can show me how to sell something on eBay. Like, you open up an account. Oh, how do I do that? I was just like, Mom, do you want money?

Unknown Speaker  9:59  

Unknown Speaker  10:00  
Is that your cue? Is that what you're trying to learn full solution with everything? No money. Like if you try to make $50 I'll give you 70. Just leave me the fuck. Talk to me about it. I don't want to I don't like the interchange of exchange. But I'll tell you what's interesting. My mom My mom asked me to come fix things that are house like, go like put this table together. And Lauren's like, Andrew wouldn't put that together in our house. Can we give you money not know your side. And then my mother goes, I don't care if you would pay someone in his house, and I don't want him to pay anyone in my house. I want him to come and pay attention to me and put it together for me. Yes. It wasn't about the table she wanted to spend time with. She doesn't

Unknown Speaker  10:37  
say Andrew, come over, I'll make you steak or blintzes. Right. That's what I would come for that or cabbage work. That's ridiculous. Anyway, Morty Morty, to answer your question about tick tock. The point is that we know, across gaming platforms, multiple leaks of sensitive data has come about from low level operatives in our military in the last few months. And we know that Facebook,

Unknown Speaker  11:05  
not just Facebook,

Unknown Speaker  11:07  
not just Facebook, Instagram, not just Instagram, not just Instagram, we know that you have Twitter, not just Twitter, there's all these social media apps, and they're all vulnerable. And I don't think the Chinese government's like

Unknown Speaker  11:24  
our parent company has some sort of attack on this. Did you see Russia just got taken down last week of having all these different? You saw the sheriff with, there was all these different. Russia got taken down by the US of all these different tech operations where they were doing doing anti us around the whole of the world. I don't think a foreign bad actor is saying they're going like, you know what, let's only target tic tock right now, because we have ties to it. Like they're gonna hack all of them. Right. So I think the predicament is to answer your question. Yes, the Chinese government may be using Tiktok. Yes, the Chinese government may have some ties to Tik Tok. But does that mean that tick tock is any more vulnerable and should have any more restrictions than Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all the other jazz out there? I agree that there's an issue with social media. But let's get rid of it. Yeah. No, but like, if you want to make a rule about social media or regulate social media, I think that's a good idea. But more than this, that's not going to happen. I don't know if you saw a SCOTUS Supreme Court this week rules that section 230 survives, Twitter and Google have no exposure, when they are having harmful content on their platforms. Section 230. They make a rule and they say, Listen, it's from the Supreme Court, we need not resolve either the viability of plaintiffs claims as a whole or whether plaintiff should receive further leave to men. Rather, we think it's sufficient to acknowledge that much, if not all of plaintiffs complaint seems to fail under either our decision in Twitter, or the Ninth Circuit's unchallenged holding below. We therefore declined to address the application of section 232. A complaint there appears to state little if any plausible claim for relief. Instead, we vacate the judgment, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Section 230. Is that law that says, internet companies like cell phone companies aren't responsible for the content on it? They're just the provider. Right? So why is tick tock I want to understand this in the same week, Montana says we should get rid of the provider Tiktok because there's vulnerability of the content on it. And the Supreme Court comes out with US companies, Google and Twitter. We got ally mosque.

Unknown Speaker  13:39  
We got the Google brothers. You know about these fellows? Well, they used to be buddies with Sergey. They used to be buddies. Yeah. They used to be buddies with a lawn no more. They had a little fallen out of here. But anyway, you got you got these Google guys. And you got the Twitter guys, the US companies, apparently the supreme court thinks they should have no exposure for what happens with the content. On the other hand, Montana is basing their discriminatory Dissector discriminatory, discriminatory, or maybe just a free speech violation, as the complaints now currently allege. I don't know what's wrong with Tiktok. But they haven't sued yet on the tomato case and saying, Hey, listen, this is a equal protection violation. And it's a very solid case and equal protections, call me anyway, so I'll sue them. But the fact is the First Amendment case, on one note, you have the Supreme Court of the United States saying US companies, you have no liability if you help push your YouTube videos.

Unknown Speaker  14:39  
If you help push your tweets, to terrorist organizations that blow people up, that's not your problem, even if it's helping your algorithm. Like I don't know if you saw this week, they came out and they said, Twitter, since a Lonnie man has taken over, is having more conspiracy theories coming out dangerous conspiracy

Unknown Speaker  15:00  
theories it's there was a study came out this week. No liability allottee man, that's cool, which I'm not saying there should be liability to musk. I'm not saying that the Google guys should have a problem. Like I'm a big fan of Sergey. I think they're amazing. But isn't it inconsistent? Isn't it xenophobic on the same note for Montana to base their elimination of Tiktok? I just want to say and Lauren you're looking at me like I'm crazy person. But aren't you? Aren't you like concerned that they're randomly saying this would be like them saying like this Radek?

Unknown Speaker  15:35  
We can have, we can have

Unknown Speaker  15:39  
all different types of food, lots of different types of food in this country. But you know what, the Italians invented the pizza. We want no more pizza. On the contrary, I'm afraid of the pizza. I don't like pizza. It's tied to the Italians. Like it's a randomized statement because China has so I'm not saying a light China don't misunderstand what I'm saying. It just is going to make more conspiracy theories happen. And that's probably the biggest issue of all social media. What do you mean, everything spread like banning Tiktok is just another it's going to another conspiracy theory is going to come off of that as well. What does that mean? Another country? Like you mean, because you think the government's conspiring to ban Tiktok? Yes, so they're in cahoots with Facebook, they're just going to be

Unknown Speaker  16:23  
and then all of a sudden, it we're hashtagging ducks behind Montana Tiktok ban, he's gonna be that's gonna trend he's gonna be very happy though. I don't know if you saw they just did an AI conference in the White House. And he was not invited. And he was very sad, apparently. So then he released an open source AI through meta, that's the new Facebook parent company, because he likes to be the most scolded tech CEO in the US. And apparently, and so Lauren, maybe if we were to blame it on Zaki, we could get in good with him. He has his own island in Hawaii, I want to

Unknown Speaker  16:56  
blame things on Him, though He is not a very well liked person. So well, that would be a good way to go. His whole problem I could tell you is he hasn't called up to come on the LEAP cast, or better yet to be on our snowboarding and blintzes Tiktok episode of Big Sky Montana, it should be leaving ZOC you know, ZOC likes to do the hydrofoil. You've seen it? Yeah. And so it's similar to snowboard, but Morty. I'm still having trouble with us. And I think it's it's losing air as I'm saying it because I think for some reason, it's boring to people or something else. But I find this to be a major dichotomy, a major problem. And I'm fine. Once again,

Unknown Speaker  17:37  
with Option A,

Unknown Speaker  17:40  
we find no social media companies responsible for anything. That's what the supreme court basically said.

Unknown Speaker  17:47  
I find option B, we think it's a bad idea. If social media companies are getting money in extra revenue by targeting their algorithm, so terrorists end up getting videos that blow people up. So we're gonna put rules on these companies. That's kinda cool. Let's not blow people up ding, ding. But Montana did is they said, Let's arbitrarily pick out the boogeyman company. And let's just say because of the boogeyman, let's get rid of them. And then the question becomes if they are the boogeyman, is it a violation of the First Amendment of the users? Or is that a violation of equal protection of the company? And either way how in God's name or better yet the AIS name you see? I'm not going to hell God anymore. I'm just gonna do all hell chacha. Oh, the AI rabbi, tell them about that morning. Do they know? Did you tell them? Yeah, can we discuss the rabbi on Everest? I don't know. You tell me. Yeah, we have a couple of weeks ago, but refreshing. Yeah, basically, it's check GPT, but a rabbi. So it's actually pretty substantive. So you can ask the rabbi, any of your questions related to Judaism and you get a pretty like substantive answer with sources. I was what I would love to know, if there was an AI priests, what is the problem? All? Right. So confession, confessions, and then you got to search in chat GPT what are the most popular confessions? That would be great, you know, that's the problem with GPT is that it has security flaws right now, where it uses the data from it so come out. So you would think on a traditional algorithm or website or, or service or software, the biggest thing is if I gave my confession, it would never be exposed it'd be conquered or there could be a leak but be beyond like error gonna confess really, you shouldn't do it to your AI. Well, that's because when you go on to the these large learning models, and you go on they like all warn you like we use your data and even if we don't, it's gonna be out and then there's gonna be data leak. So, to your point, Lauren, maybe the business model isn't doing the large learning model but finding out all their leaked information, and we could do a reality show Lauren's Lauren's Sunday confession. All right.

Unknown Speaker  20:00  
At top five, because he's gonna be like, I have a hangover right now. I went out with the ladies last night till 1230 I have my kids party tonight, Andrew, just saying that's your habits. You know? Where'd you go? I went to book club. book clubs. Fun morning. Here's what happened running till 1230 in the morning. Yeah, ain't no party like a girlfriend, party girl from parties rock. Yes, has a theme song.

Unknown Speaker  20:25  
It's not that she leaves to how much you missed, you know?

Unknown Speaker  20:28  
You know, we haven't even had one since January. So that's why you have a monthly like, ladies. So back to Montana, I want to understand because, well, I'm not over it. And I think that this is getting like missed in the media. I think that this is a poison pill. I think that this is going on more and more and more and more. And I'm disappointed in our media. I liked that. They covered the conferences when the Congress, the US Congress held it. And I liked it going out there. But what I'm concerned about is first of all, I first think this is just a overall arcing. I'm angry about this. media loves to cover the oral arguments on SCOTUS supreme court hearings, they love in a good oral argument. But then they never follow up on the decision. Like, do you know what a reader is? Learn? No, a reader means like, I say, SCOTUS, in the Twitter and Google cases has decided that section 230 survives, and they have no liability based on the content on their site. As opposed to me saying, Lauren, tell me what you think about section 230 Surviving from the cases, which is not a reader. So when you're on a media site, a reader means they don't need the expert, the guests, they don't interact about it. They don't analyze it with other hosts, too. They just say it and move on.

Unknown Speaker  21:47  
So a news brief, they're just saying it well, it's called a reader. I'll tell you what. It's called a reader, US non media people, I'm letting you know. Okay, so my point is that section 230 surviving is a reader right now, which is nuts. To me, it's really engaging in dialogue about it on this is such an important issue right now, that section 230 survived, because again, what it means is,

Unknown Speaker  22:11  
number one, historically, we meant it when section 230 was first put out, we understood it to say, hey, all these people are posting, why should the provider let's say, it's my space? Why should they be responsible for what's on it? You see what I'm saying? Which made sense. But as algorithms got stronger, and they were able to push what you saw on what you didn't see, and they were able to push negative content and screen non negative content, and they had the power to, I don't know, put people in timeout, you know, they can take you off, you get you get your warning, you go to Facebook Jail. They can? I don't know if you saw on Twitter, now they have commentary, they explain what's wrong with it. Now that they have the power to do that. Isn't do we learn in law school shadow the first day? Isn't this what they teach in law school?

Unknown Speaker  23:01  
In the United States, you don't have a duty to do many things. But once you do it, you obtain a duty to do it correctly. Like that's what they teach you today. No one told them they were required to have these algorithms. Yeah, they did. And now the burden is on them to be responsible with them. But apparently, the losses, they don't have to be and I think that's insane. Like, it's one thing to say section 230 says, You do nothing social media sites besides be a platform, let everyone claim it right. We won't expect you to mind that or every video that's uploaded. Yeah. But once you start saying, I'm monitoring this, I'm doing this, I'm removing this person, I have media content rules here I have this year, and then now someone gets hurt, which is what happened here. And they sue you for perpetrating that, and the Supreme Court of the United States says you have no liability. I don't agree with that. I think first of all, if you do something, you have a duty to do it, right. Like, that's kinda what the rule is. And especially you're looking at the normal human being, which has like, their ethical, their line of ethics is just not there. So I was I'm gonna I'm gonna say raise. But when I was in college, everything was about original source. And then all of a sudden social media comes out. And we're in a whole generation that doesn't matter what the source is, you could just say whatever you want, and people believe it. So I have to interact with that a little and I agree with you. You talked about primary source versus secondary source versus tertiary tertiary source material, like when you went to college LexisNexis was like at a tea day. And that was like a big thing. It just came out Google was just coming out. And I will say to you that in the professional world,

Unknown Speaker  24:38  
primary source, secondary source is very, very important, regardless of profession. It's still there. I just want to put that then I will tell you in the media world or political world, two more important things have emerged.

Unknown Speaker  24:52  
One is doing your research. That's a term you know, doing your research means. I went to some obscure website where someone's

Unknown Speaker  25:00  
That's something that's one thing and making it all yours. You can make up any fact you can, you should, I'm telling you there's, there's two, there's two things that beat right now, primary source material. And just to give you a one on one primary source material means you did the research. Here's the results. secondary source material means you're summarizing. So in law, you're generally a secondary source because the court is generally the Supreme Court, the primary source material, whereas in social science, the scientists that is doing the study that publishes it is usually the primary source or the meta analysis is the primary source here review 100% peer review, meaning you don't get published in the scholarly journal unless people that are in your academic circle also approve of your qualification credentials. Yes, yeah. No, I agree with you. But what I'm saying to you in media circles now, to Cheryl's point a little, is, it's not just that you have to, you may make it up. You actually have to affirmatively keep going, like I was watching

Unknown Speaker  26:03  
MTG, and she was, uh, she was questioning a witness other day. And she would say, have you not done your research, the data says she never cited the data. Like, if you use big terms like, and it's not going to say big terms, I'm going to tell you how to tell when they're lying. They use conclusory terms like research data, they're buzzwords, if you use the word research data, then you say whatever you want to say, that's how you lie. I can teach you to be a good liar. I know how to do it. I, I did my research. And the data says that I'm right, and you're wrong. And they never give me the facts. That's it. But Trump, I have to give him credit. He made that up. No, he would at least give fake numbers. He would say the data says the research says I, here's how he does it. I've heard from some people that it's 30%. And others have been saying it's 40%. And still others have been saying 42%. So he makes up numbers. But he says I've heard from people. Those are the triggers that you know, when they're making it up problem with it is that people also want to believe that there's conspiracy theories on everything. So they want to believe you know what, I don't really trust what Trump said, because you know, it's all about Bill Gates who started a pandemic or something like that, and they don't care. They might not care. So you could have a fact checker after every debate. Yeah. And they'll say what candidates said was complete bullshit. And then you need to but then you need to check the fact checkers. Yes. That's

Unknown Speaker  27:33  
the problem. And that's what Alon wants to do on his new thing on his thing with Tucker, allowing everyone to fact check on live on Oh my God, that's his vision of everyone do it. But more than that, I actually like Yeah, well, so the problem with that is does the speaker even care? And here's the real issue. This is my big issue, and then we'll go back to how we solve it all. But my first big issue Lauren keeps saying conspiracy theories.

Unknown Speaker  28:00  
What does a mailman do? For a job? Puts mail from a truck into a mailbox? What does a

Unknown Speaker  28:10  
waiter do for a job? deliver food from the kitchen to the table of who ordered it? These are typical hard jobs like their job so misunderstand, like that's what we're doing. And consider fire research. And conspiracy theorists seem to believe that our government is able to do things that I don't think they're capable of. I just don't want to tap your fingers not that I gotta I gotta tell you like I don't know if you don't know any government workers. I know a bunch of them taking their our lunch break. Don't misunderstand. No, there's some that don't. And there's some that are brilliant. But I can't get in a law firm with people with doctorates. We couldn't work a conspiracy theory here if we tried. No, there's just no way it would be so seen like these these people. They're like, if heavy imaginations they're sitting here, like the government's doing this, like I got, I got the wrong voter ID card for example. It should have been the other one. They're trying to trap me. The It's a conspiracy putting a chip in you. I'm telling you what really happened here. Some schmo who works there that could care less put the wrong thing into the wrong envelope might have stamped a whole pile of them wrong to promise you is intentionality. No, that's exactly right. Cheryl. The vast majority of these bad actors aren't bad actors. They're morons, like, until you realize that, like, I'm going to tell you one of the other things you learn in law school or any academic like I have a master's in another field. The higher you go in any field, the more you know, you don't know. And so as you learn more, you realize how dumb you are. And when you realize how dumb you are, you know that other people on your level clearly aren't working the maneuvers of the deep state because they could barely brush their own fucking teeth in the morning. Like I'd be happy if my co workers would not have tartar. Like it's not like that.

Unknown Speaker  30:00  
If anybody's listening, just take a little bit of a look in the mirror and look at see if you have time. Well here nobody wants to look, here's the point you have to floss your every every night, every night, make your kids floss every night. It's very important. But here's the point.

Unknown Speaker  30:14  
At the end of the day, we can say that the deep state of China is somehow manipulating Tik Tok. And we should ban tick tock and forget about our Constitution and Bill of Rights and Equal Protection Clause and First Amendment. And we can forget about our freedom of speech because after all, those boogeyman in China, I'm sure the Chinese just so you're all clear. The Chinese are just as lazy as the Americans. The Americans are just as lazy as the Russians, the Russians, these people that are like, Oh, well, the Chinese. I don't know if you've ever realized they have billions of people. And I'm positive that there's very, very easy and some are amazing. Yeah, like that's how it works. And at the end of the day, what we really need and I think that SCOTUS is kind of right, and hopefully we can go there is we don't need to say that section 230. Makes Twitter and Google liable. But we do need to create a new standard, our Congress that says

Unknown Speaker  31:11  
the social media companies, all of them, all of them, all of these platforms, not just social media, all of the platforms. If you undertake a duty to have a regulated space, then you have the duty to do it correctly. Think about that. This is the LEAP cast